Why so much suffering ? Looking for answers.

[BC1969]

That is one thing I do not think I have ever even read about before, but what you typed there has me interested crispin..I plan on doing some reading tonight on it.
thanks for sharing it.

Mike

[squiggy]

Dear Mike,
I felt saddened in reading your post.
Did you know that everyone questions!
Mother Teresa stated she ofen questioned it all.

Satan has nothing to do with anything. .
Follow your heart towards what will bring happiness and fulfilment to your life..

Through pain comes growth..if the pain is more than one can manage, some help is needed....
My Best to you,
Barb

[unclebuck257]

Mike,

As Chad and others have said, God does not cause trouble, sickness, and heartache, but does allow it to happen. I believe that Chad has indicated in his post that some of what he wants to discuss with you is better done in a PM because of the depth of what he probably wants to say to you and some others may not want to discuss that part of it. Suffice to say that if you read The Bible you will quickly see that there are TWO entities. One is Our Lord and one is the enemy, or the devil or lucifer. Simply put, if you believe in one, then you must believe in the other. From this point on, I will simply say what I know something about and believe strongly in, although there will be much more to it than I will type in here now. Just as Our Lord has an Army of Angels you can read about in The Bible, when lucifer was thrown out of Heaven and took one third of the angels with him at that time, those angels then became lucifer's army of demons. Just like in any army, there are generals, lower ranking officers and bookoo grunts, that do the bidding of the higher ranking officers, or demons. Make no mistake Mike, there is an unseen war going on between Heaven and hell and the two armies, over YOU and ME! We all know what the FINAL outcome of that war will be, in that as we're told in The Bible, Jesus Will Return to fight that final battle of the war and HE WILL BE TRIUMPHANT! Until that time my friend,as The Word States, Satan roams to and fro, freely over the earth devouring what he will. That means that sickness, disease, sadness and all the rest will be with us until Jesus Returns and defeats lucifer and his army. All is certainly not lost for us humans in the meantime though because the more we learn about it, the more we can fight with authority! Simply put, that authority only comes to us from and through Jesus Name and The Blood He Shed on The Cross! Also since Chad mentioned Job and his ordeals, please also remember that each time the enemy wanted to do something else to test Job, and get him to curse God, he had to go back up to Heaven and obtain God's authority to do it. In the end, Job was rewarded 7 times over for standing firm in his love for The Lord, no matter what he had to endure or had thrown at him. Quick answer..no matter what is thrown at you, Thank God and Keep Faith in Him for all things. Not so quick answer as Chad has said is a long journey, not meant for all to start.

[patcat]

Mike, this subject is soooo deep, with labyrinth like twists and turns, translations and meanings that are multi-fold, allegorical, and sometimes, just downright confusing.

I find the Bible to be an utterly fascinating piece of works. As a Christian, we are taught to read it 3 ways, literally, figuratively, and spiritually. There are even MORE layers to it from there. I'm talking as Bible codes, mental health instruction book, science book, technology book, the layers are amazing, possibly unending!
Take this from one, who's mother was Southern Baptist church secretary for a decade. PPl in our church and town, didn't call on our preacher, they called on my Mom.

Wt's info from Roy Masterson, is some really good stuffs! I just have problems when ppl want one to start pulling money out of their pocket. "For that which is freely given to you, you do not charge for". I do recommend you read up on some of Roy's works, they are good.

Knowing of some of what you deal with(and bless you in your struggles), I would think some knowledge, understanding, (forgiveness) and/or acceptance of who and what we are, is a good beginning.
Mike, I too used to contemplate the plight of us humans, the sufferings, the meanness, all the bad stuffs. So I too, as well as many others here, no where you are coming from with that.
In that line, we have to start with ourselves. Were WE(I) mean, ugly, unkind to someone, today? It's always easy to see how "others treat others", sometimes less easy to see how "WE"(I) do it, to others. I know you have the proper heart. That is very important!

I do want to say I do not believe we are meant to suffer. Suffering, pain, and angst, does have it's place as a motivator, BUT, it is not a healthy inhibited state to remain in. Even the man who predicted Budha's birth said, one would be born that would teach the END of suffering. Even the Bible states, "It takes a broken and contrite man......." So don't inhibit your higher self with the struggle of suffering, use it as a motivator, be the difference in the world, that you want to see.(I also participate in a near death forum, from which I have learned much)

My teacher of Love(Khooba), his lifes' goal was to find the words by which Jesus healed ppl instantly! He created the Laws for Living instructions, that help ppl replace fear and anger, with proper Love(Khooba).
Khooba is an Aramaic word that basically means, You have a positive attitude for EVERYTHING your perceive, seeking out FIRST the good in it, before acknowledging the bad or negative. (It's been called unconditional love, and before finding or seeking bad/negative, you have to be certain you have run the thing or situation through "proper judgment", and I can't say "proper judgment" is always an easy thing) We are told not to judge, so again, it's not something one wants to do improperly.

It is a mind-set, on HOW TO VIEW YOUR WORLD. My teacher told us, that they do not understand YET, but they KNOW, that by practicing this, it actually changes your brain. That was almost 40 yrs ago. I have seen where science is catching up with this "theory". His theory is derived from Jesus' words.

I will offer you this link to review. I think Chad and WT would approve. Learning about ourself is something not many care to dive in to, though most, are obsessed with themselves, but rightfully so. The world gives us many distractions, too many, that our minds cannot focus and concentrate on all of them, thus comes confusions.
Sorry this is so long, I feel it's important. I hope we can all take "baby steps" and recognize that even failure, is accepted. Even the baby does not stand for the first time and run a marathon, he falls, he fails, he tries again. So must we......

www.iloveulove.com/history/enlightenment.htm

Your body, brain and even cells, lives in one or two positions, inhibited(closed) or uninhibited(open/accepting). We can all learn how to help ourselves/others live better, more open, and truthful lives.
Imho, we have to lay aside fables and stories, see the true practical applications of what we learn, for better living, and then apply it. Know through practice and experience, that what we think we know, is indeed true and applicable.
Stay strong everyone and keep fighting the good fight!

[crispin]

"Fall down seven times, stand up eight." -Buddhist proverb

Everyone responding here has reached out to you and offered you a doorway. All the doors will lead you to the right place...if you have the strength to pass through and endure. I am unlike my fellow posters. I offer you neither a doorway or guidance. I am here to tell you only that healing will involve choosing a path and commitment. To truly heal, one's mind cannot be clouded by chemicals. You must experience each emotion and process it. Numbing will temporarily appease the pain but will not further you on your journey. Cleanse your body of alcohol, marijuana, benzodiazepines, stimulants, and other mind altering substances. If you have been diagnosed with a thought disorder or a mood disorder then dutifully take what is necessary to prevent a relapse into psychosis.

I sense genuine pain in the words you have written; however, I also sense rebellion against those who try to help you. To achieve peace you must have a balance of proper medical treatment and spiritual leadership. There are many, many others on this forum who are far more qualified to lead you down the latter part.

God bless, I pray you use this opportunity being offered to you in earnest. You have a spectacular host of information, love, and guidance at your finger tips.

Crispin

[BC1969]

Thank you crispin, what you said is exactly right, that I push back against those trying to help me, the worst part of all my issues, is the fact that I am aware of it all, as I understand it, most folks that have the issues I have, are not aware anything is wrong with them, I know full well the thoughts and voices I hear are a serious illness, I would love to be ignorant of it all and just think I was normal, but I cannot.
where the rebellion comes into play is the fact that I do NOT believe in medicines made by man, I feel that if I am ill like this, then that is what GOD intended for me, and who am I to try and change what GOD has ordained for me.
I cannot stand the thought, and I feel it is a terrible sin to take or do anything that alters our state of mind, that and I really, really do NOT like being a drooling zombie that sits in the corner.
if there was any one thing I wish I could cure it would be the whispers, its not like loud voices, but just whispers, talking to me, telling me what he thinks of me, I have 2 personalities, this one that is typing is kind gentle loving caring and full of empathy for all man kind, the other one however, is a real bastard alpha male, he is mean to everybody including me..and I think that is what makes me unique, is in the fact that I am aware there is 2 of me, what I am not aware of is when I switch, and according to my wife I switch back and forth very quickly.

It was not until recently that I actually became truly aware of this happening, even though I was diagnosed many years ago with this, it happened one day while driving, was talking to the wifey, and said something mean and right at that moment, it was like the veil was lifted and I became..this guy became aware of what the other one had just said.

I have been with my wife going on 27 years now, for years and years she would tell me I had said such and such, and I would be like I never said any such thing, I would have no recollection of having said something she said I just said, and that shattered that day while driving and I heard him say it outloud...I will say I cried for almost 2 weeks straight after comming to the realization that what the docs and everybody in my life had been telling me was true, I am crying now as I type this, because I know how mean and hatefull he can be, I cannot believe some of the things that come out of my mouth at times, how my wife has stuck by me all these years tells me she truly loves me, for if he is so mean to me, tells me that I am a retard and why dont you go kill yourself all the time, I cringe at the thought of how mean he must have been to her all this time.

I really wish I could not be ill like this, it is terrifying to be aware of this happening within myself, why do I have to be aware of it all...I rea,lly need to stop typing now, I cannot see now..to be continued.

I cannot tell you all what it means to me that folks actually care enough to let me vent and then to actually respond and offer their wisdom, I just feel so alone, I know the lord loves me, I just wish I could hear him like so many other tell me they can hear him speak to them.

Mike

[BC1969]

I actually consider all of you as my family, even though I have never met any of you.
Having people to talk to, is the most important thing in my life, it is what keeps me grounded.
that being said, as crispin said, is that I am a rebel, and that is very true, why that is, is I feel that my pdoc and the tdoc..well the therapist is not really a doc, but I call him one anyway, is in the fact that I really get annoyed when people try and analyze me, now don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for them, because of all the schooling they go through, but that is my problem with it, everybody is different, and just because they have read a million books does not mean they can assume to know what is in my head, and it insults my intelligence that my docs feel like they can label me as whatever their books tell them..its like come on..TALK TO ME dammit, do not tell me what you think I am feeling, shut up and listen to me, really listen, I know I am really messed up, I am completely aware of all of it, so stop trying to convince me that I am ill..duh I already know it!..please for the love of GOD just listen to me and I can tell you what is happening inside my head.

Is it normal that I am totally aware of what is wrong with me ? are most mentally ill folks totally unaware of the fact that they are ill ? I have been diagnosed with many different illnesses, and that is a huge part of the problem, because as the pdoc likes to tell me, that this medicine should help with the voices, but it will cancel out the effects and benefits of the depakote..( no longer on that one..for it turned me into a diabetic fat blob ) but I lost all the weight back.
I have been on probably every med known to man, except some of the newest and best ones such as I think abilify ? because I cannot afford them, heck when I had health insurance, the insurance would not cover them, which is bullshit, some of them were 600 dollars a month, I cannot dream of affording that..I mean as much as I am against man made meds, if I knew they could make the whispers stop, I would gladly take them.

whats in a whisper ? I would have to say that I am glad that I am unique in the fact that I know I am very ill, that the whispers, I know they are not real voices, and as I understand it most folks that hear voices think they are real and end up acting on them and doing really bad things sometimes.
For me it is mostly my cats, I hear them telling me things, they tell me that I should just go and hide under a rock and become ignorant to it all, that it will make the bad thoughts and memories stop.

I am rambling and I hope somebody would read this and help me make sense of myself, this I have found since I became a member on tnet has helped me in ways nothing ever has, to have a medium to speak my mind, to tell anybody or just nobody what I am dealing with, I know most people just ignore me and do not bother reading my posts, and I am fine with that, sure it is really a God send that you all folks care enough about a total stranger to reply and talk to me, that I can never put into words how much that means to me..

I know alot of people tell me and say on tnet that I make no sense or cannot seem to remember what I say at times, that could be the meds, or the other me posting, I really do not know, its the OCD that really makes me crazy, I do not have a physical issue with it, I do not check things over and over, my OCD as I am told is in my thought process, the unwanted thoughts that make me really nuts at times, as example if I walk into the kitchen and there is a bottle of bleach on the counter, I will have a vision of myself picking it up and drinking it..why ? why am I having those thoughts ? plus having A.D.D. and that makes me like I am at this moment, why people say I do not seem to remember what I type, well come see me in person, my mind races so damn fast that most of the time I cannot remember what I just said a minute before.

Ok really bouncing off the wall now, I really wish I could type these things out and not switch back and forth from topic to topic, I cannot, try as I may it eludes me.

I know some of you know where most of my illness comes from, atleast I think it is where it comes from, I used to never tell people about this, heck even my wife did not know about it until just a few years ago.

When I was a child, at age 7 a uncle came to live with us, who was down on his luck, well and this is very painfull for me to type, but he repeatedly raped me from the age of 7 to the age of 10 when he died, for various reason I never told anybody about it, mainly threats by him, it messed me up bad, to the point where when I was 12 or 13 years old I was so messed up that the powers that be decided that I needed to be hospitalized, I first went into havenwyck hospital, in auburn hills, that was and is a short term private hospital, which almost bankrupted my parents, seeing as even back then in the early 80's the place costed like 3 grand a day to live there, well I was there for 33 days, the last 2 days I was there I was kept in the quiet room, think padded walls with a door so think godzilla could not break down, believe me I tried, the last day the door opened and there was a bunch of folks with a stretcher out there..yeah well combat mode was engaged, anyway from there I was sent to fairlawn center in pontiac, that was the childrens facility, part of the clinton valley center, I was there for 22 months, I will say I miss the place in a way, for the best friends I ever had in my life I made them there, one of which is still to this day my best friend, since we grew up close to each other.

Now that place was supposed to help people, yes it did at times, we went to school there, I had sorta my first job there which I actually was paid for inputing data on a old apple computer, we had therapy all the damn time, had gym class and a pool..now what I say now, is what really f-ed me up the worst, for a place and people that were supposed to help us kids, the worst physical and sexual abuse you could wish you could not imagine, we all endured there..for almost 2 years I lived that life being forced to endure things and to do things that to this day make me want to kill myself on a daily basis, thats one thing I could never do, since I think I know what God does with the souls that commit that act.

Of course being a child, an adult knew what to say to make sure we would never tell anybody what was going on, things like you will never see your family again, or worse make us do extended shock therapy for their kicks..@@h@&^#^%@%@^@@^&@&@&# BASTARDS I sincerely hope they all rot in hell, sure I could expose what they did, maybe I should, but would anybody believe me, I doubt it, due to the fact, as of to now I still cannot get my own mother to believe me that her brother did those things to me as a child, whats worse, my sister who is alot older than I am, I found out when I first told my mother about her brother several years ago, and she said " you sound just like your sister"

I was shocked I was like what ? and that is when I found out, not through my mother, but asking my sister that he was raping her aswell...this is going to sound not very christian of me, But I wish god would bring him back to life, because I would really make him wish he was dead..I am a pacifist, I cannot even kill a spider if I catch one in the house, I will take it outside and put it on a tree, I just cannot have that anger and pain come to the surface, I have such a terrible rage within me, it is there, always begging to be released, but I cannot, I will not give in to the anger those men caused in me, for I will be no better than they were and are.

If you read any of this I appreciate it deeply, if you would be so kind to respond to any of it, that would be even better, I do NOT expect anybody to do so, I do this because it helps me greatly, think of it as its my medicine..
God bless you all.
Your friend to the end.

Mike

[patcat]

Mike, you have my pm's and one more coming. You hang in there, no matter what anyone told you, you were or weren't, what do they know? They should have had to walk in your shoes! I imagine they would sing a much different tune!

[crispin]

Disclaimer: I am not establishing a doctor-patient relationship. You should make no changes to your treatment regimen without discussing them with your physician first.

Mike,

I am intentionally discussing this in the open as opposed to PMs due to the high volatility of the discussion. I want to be 100% transparent and draw witnesses. I know how you feel about doctors. I don't blame you. Whatever you have seen as your time as a patient I have seen that and 100,000 other things. Nothing surprises me. Read this next paragraph carefully. It may help clarify.

The DSM is what psychiatrist use to diagnose people. It is not a medical textbook, it is not based on research or fact, it is a book of opinion. It is a book of opinions that are so erroneous that from one addition to the next diagnosis can be completely reversed or eliminated. However, it is a necessary evil. It is a necessary evil because doctors must have a common language to communicate with each other and with patients. That is the only purpose of the DSM. Unfortunately, many psychiatrists do not understand this. They view the DSM as their "bible." They get so caught up in their books and their labels that they forget what the DSM really is. In doing so, patient's stop being patients and start becoming problems that need to be diagnosed and labeled. Sadly, when a patient becomes this the rapport in doctor-pt. relationship is severed and it is difficult to achieve symptomatic relief.

I do NOT believe in labels. I treat genetic diseases, chemical imbalances, and patients symptoms. It does not matter what the diagnosis is called. What matters to me is that patients get better. Seeing multiple doctors and having multiple interpretations of the DSM being given to a specific individual leads to innumerable diagnosis, lack of faith in the medical profession, and a total distrust of psychiatrists. I GET IT.

All that being said...we MUST have a common language.

1. You do not have ADD. The stimulants used to treat you are making you worse.
2. You do not have OCD. You have obsessions, but that is not the same thing.
3. You do not have schizophrenia. Hearing voices does not make a diagnosis of schizophrenia. I once said that you are no more schizophrenic then I am and I stand by that.

What do you have?

1. You have severe Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
2. You have Major depressive disorder, severe, with psychotic features.
3. You have a dissociative disorder not otherwise specified.

Adderall will make you worse, xanax will make you worse, ativan will make you worse, alcohol will make you worse, marijuana will make you worse. You need a good combination of a mood stabilizer and a second generation antipsychotic. I would avoid antidepressants as they may make the PTSD worse.

You do not know my identity and I cannot reveal it to you. For all you know I could be a total fraud. However, there are a handful of people here who do know me. They know who I am and what I am. If it is helpful for you then feel free to ask somebody to vouch for me. It will not hurt my feelings.

Crispin

Ps. Medicine will take you only so far. You must now walk the spiritual path with a clear mind free of intoxicants.

[squiggy]

Mike..
I read your post..
I will share something with you..first i totally agree with crispin..I will say that i have personal experience with ptsd.
I still deal with it at times, but it is very manageable.
I chose a path of intense therapy twice weekly for some 25 years
I did not use medication. But instead picked a skilled clinician who had impeccable boundaries and whom i trusted..I do believe there are some folks who need and benefit from meds tho..

Dont avoid any feeling, and dont avoid what is real. If something bothers you about the therapist tell him or her.
You have to move toward the feelings and thoughts and experience them many,many times before they dissipate or lessen.

The issues,fears etc that surface between you and your therapist are very important.
You may at times be angry and fearful. .thats part of the work..talk it over and experience it..you will work everything through in that relationship, but not if you are on addictive chemicals..
DONT JUDGE YOUR FEELINGS..All feelings are ok...
I believe the health of an individual is determined by his ability to deal with what is real..
My very best to you..

[squiggy]

Also mike if you are using any illegal drugs, alcohol, addictive prescription drugs etc, i would advise you to get some help for your Chemical Dependency. .This shoukd happen before any therapy takes place, otherwise the anxiety generated by the therapy will drive you more towards the chemicals..
DO NOT try to stop any addictive substances without medical help as some like alcohol and benzodiazepines ,when discontinued will cause a life threatening seizure.

[BC1969]

Interesting stuff that is, I have no addictions, the ativan I am prescribed, the last time I filled that was over a year ago, out of the 90 pills in that bottle there is 78 in there, I know they are highly addictive, that is why I do not take them unless in a full blown panic, I am talking like 200bpm heart rate.

Yeah so many doctors over the years, I have so many things wrong with me they say, but I agree with you on all but the schizophrenia thing, if you could see how paranoid I am you would understand, I get really bad at times, in ways I do not like to admit, such as hiding in closets and being terrified that white vans are comming to get me.
it is things like that I do not like to tell anybody about, not even the doctors, because I do not want to be forced to go someplace I cannot go, I will not go.
the adderal I cannot take that for I panic before I take it for the way it makes me feel, so I just do not take it.

I do on occasion use marijuana, mainly when I have to be in a place or situation where others around me want me to be in a happy go lucky mood, however using it pushes my paranoia through the roof, and well, that can be really bad, because when my paranoia reaches a certain point, I become very dangerous to myself and others, and end up in a closet crying and screaming, for when that happens, it is like a flood gate is opened, and all that hate for the man that did what he did to me, and them social workers at fairlawn, I lose it, really bad, and that is one place I cannot go, I cannot allow those feelings and emotions to surface, they must be hidden away and contained, it is hard for me to explain the rage, it is hard at the moment to even type this as my chest is getting tight and I feel panic starting in, because even thinking about the pain and rage is enough to set me into an episode.

I just do not know any more I have stopped trying to analyze myself a long time ago, the only reason I am here, is because I have some faith and beliefs that God is real, and what he/it does with suicides, I really wish I did not believe in him, for I would have just ended all this pain decades ago, I think about it everyday, infact it is all I think about, not a very pleasant way to live, but neither is having lucid nightmares so real that they have a physical effect on me, why do I have to endure all of the pain and especially this rage that lurks just under the surface ?
why cannot anybody help me, they tell me I need to help myself first, believe you me, I have been desperately trying to help myself as long as I can remember.

I really wish I could see a real doc like you are crispin, but that wont ever happen, because real docs cost something I do not have, and well medicaid docs ? bleh most I have had the displeasure of working with, I think they got their degrees from a box of cracker jax.
I have to stop now, I am wading into a place I cannot go, I cannot let them emotions get near the surface for I will rage and that is well, you do not want to know, I am not worried if I were to harm myself, that in its self would be a great thing, a release from all this pain, it is the safety of my wife is what scares me most, that is why I have to bury my emotions, becaise I am scared to death I would hurt her in the rage, and well that would be worse then God sending me to hell.

Mike

PS I really did not want to share this, but I thought about it and feel I should, so maybe I can be given some advice about how I should proceed with things in my life, speaking of the paranoia I deal with, it is so severe that I no longer even trust my own wife, somebody I have been with for nearly 3 decades, to the point that I cannot eat or drink anything she makes for me, because no matter how hard I try and push those thoughts from my head, I believe she is trying to poison me, God help me, for nothing else can.

[squiggy]

Mike..If i were in your spot i would figure out what i could pay for good help
,then call around to see who is recommended and see if they woukd take you on a sliding scale...This is not something you can do yourself!!

[crispin]

Nobody is beyond help as long as they draw breath. Listen to your spiritual advisers and let them guide you. Assign or get assigned a reading every day...study it. If you feel safe in the closet then stay in the closet until you are ready to come out. Peace comes with forgiveness. Suffering ends with meditation. As long as insight remains then you have a fighting chance to find relief.

[worldtalker]

 GOD does not make us suffer,it is our Sinfulness our weakness that draws
 oppression out of the Pit.People suffer because they are always tricked into
 suffering choosing Evil as though it were Good.People suffer because they
 deserve to suffer.Our Creator does not make our lives Bitter,Wretched and
 Miserable.We bring it ALL upon ourselves.
 
  GOD Bless

  Chris